Caz Binstead, Author Special: Services to Private Practice

Here we interview author Caz Binstead on her years of work as a specialist in private practice. We talk about her writings, courses, and her work with both students and those new to the sector; the BACP Private practice toolkit; her community work and the release of the forthcoming book, Relational Ethics in Psychotherapy and Counselling Private Practice: Solidarity, Compassion, Justice (Binstead, C; Sarantakis, N).

Caz Binstead is an experienced private practitioner, supervisor, writer, facilitator/visiting lecturer. Specialising in the growth and maintenance of ethical and thriving practice, she was instrumental in creating the Private practice toolkit at the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (BACP). She acted as divisional lead on the project. In addition to having many papers published in this area, she is also the first author of the book, Relational Ethics in Psychotherapy and Counselling Private Practice: Solidarity, Compassion, Justice (Binstead, C; Sarantakis, N): https://amzn.eu/d/jeh2nWq

Caz is co-lead of the popular community platform #TherapistsConnect (and founder of their student community #TraineeTalk), and was the creative director and a keynote speaker at the two-day conference, Private Practice 2021: Surviving and Thriving in Uncertain Times. She has hosted and run workshops at two BACP student conferences, and through her extensive work in this area, has helped hundreds of therapists with their private practice. 

#TherapistsConnect is a platform for connecting therapists.
Website: www.Therapists-Connect.com
Twitter: @Therapists_C
Instagram: @TherapistsConnect
Facebook: @TherConnect

Origins of #TherapistsConnect

Transcript

Dr Peter Blundell: 0:00

Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the therapist connects podcast. My name is Dr. Peter Blundell. And today we have a very, very special episode where I'm interviewing Caz Binstead, that the fellow at co-lead at the therapist connect community, about how years of work as a specialist in private practice. So we talk about her writings courses and her work was both students that, those new to the sector. Uh, development and input into the BACP private practice toolkit. Uh, community work and the release of her book, relational ethics and psychotherapy and counseling, private practice, solidarity, compassion, and justice published by Routledge. So hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did recording it. If you'd like to order a copy of Caz's book, then you can find the link to that in the show notes. So hello everybody and welcome to a Therapist Connect broadcast. Um, my name's Peter Blundell and we're going to be releasing this, I think, on our YouTube account and also on our podcast platform. So some of you'll be able to see me and our guest and some of you, some of you won't. So this is a special, um, author special with Therapist Connect co lead Caz Binsted. Caz, hello.

Caz Binstead: 1:10

Hello, it's really good to be here. And we were just saying slightly different dynamic in that you're interviewing me today. So I feel a little bit nervous, a little bit unusual for me to feel nervous. But it's so yeah, this means a lot. It's so nice to be here talking to our community. Well, I think it's a really important moment, I think, because if people don't know, Caz has got a book. out, which is around private practice. So, um, we wanted to do this interview to kind of explore, um, her specialism around private practice and talk a little bit about the book as well. So we're going to come on to all of that as part of this interview process. Um, as Caz says, Caz is normally one of the hosts of the, of the podcast. So the, um, you were, you were Uh, first, one of the first guests on the podcast early on. So we, we have done this interview style, uh, before, but about five years ago, I think, so, flashback. Um, okay. So, um, we're going to start off. So we're going to talk about private practice and that's one of your specialisms, your area of interest. So to kind of lead us into that discussion, can you tell our viewers or listeners what led you into private practice as a therapist in the first place? Yeah, well, it's quite interesting because I never wanted to go into private practice. It wasn't that I, I didn't want to do it. It's just that I didn't think about it. Um, it wouldn't be, I think as a person, like it wouldn't be the, uh, a natural place for me to get to go to, to think about working in the private sector. Um, and, uh, yeah, I kind of finished my training and, um, Um, I'd done, uh, I got a lot of experience actually, um, in placements and things like that. And I was working with adults and teenagers. Um, and what I actually wanted to do was work in a school or a college, um, or a university maybe, um, as a therapist. Um, and, uh, so I kind of, I started applying for things and, um, I remember, um, I did get an interview quite quickly actually, um, in, uh, in a secondary school and I kind of had the interview and it was all going really, really well. Um, and, uh, they were very kind of like, oh, you know, um, you really fit the post and stuff like this. And then we got onto the accreditation question and they said, well, we think that you're, you'd be really good, but you know, you're not accredited. I said, well, I know that's because I've, I've not, I'm not far off qualifying, but actually I, I actually had around 450 hours because I had a lot of clinical hours. Um, and so I said, you know, you'll see my, my hours. It's not gonna take me long to do. Literally. I'm very happy to just do that, that process as quickly as I can. And the reply was kind of, well, yeah, but it's not a quick process. And, and, and that was it. And I just thought it was at that moment that I realized. Okay, this is going to be a problem. Um, and I, and I, you know, I couldn't afford to not work. Um, so, um, I, it just so happened that concurrently I was, um, I had three clients that I'd taken into a kind of a, a low cost, um, Private practice and how that had come about was that the placement that I was in, um, they ran the NHS services here in Lambeth, um, and they had a low cost, um, service, um, which allow people who, um, like clients who liked their NHS therapists. to move into the low cost service if they wanted to. So that was quite good because it let them, you know, stay with a therapist if they, um, if they were really, um, you know, getting on with that therapist and wanted to continue. So that had kind of happened. And then, um, and then the placement allowed you to then take those low cost therapists into your own private practice. So I'd kind of done that as just a way of kind of Continuing to work. Um, and I thought, well, okay, well, I've got three clients and, uh, you know, that's not going to be enough. So if I can't get a job now, I'm going to have to try and, you know, build this private practice. Um, so it was all kind of just, it wasn't planned and I do, I do maintain that actually, um, to, to this day, and some people will see this in, in the book, psychology is a big part of, um, how successful you are in private practice. I do believe that you're kind of your mindset. Um, and I was really in a place where I wasn't, I wasn't kind of one of those people that was like, you know, I'm desperate to have a private practice. Um, um, so I was kind of just a bit like, I've just got to kind of find a way to make it work. Um, and yeah, and I did. And as you know, Peter, I'm not the most, uh, kind of kind of the word corporate is one of my, uh, like run and hide words. Peter knows this. Um, so I'm not what you would call a kind of, Uh, classic business person, if you like, but I did also understand that it was a business. So I was able to just learn how to, I just started from scratch. Um, I just learned it myself. Um, and, uh, I did it, uh, kind of in the way of who I am as a person. So I didn't try and be someone that I wasn't. Um, but I did learn how to do it all myself. And, um, yeah. Yeah, very quickly, my practice was full and yeah, however many years, nearly 15, uh, 13, 13 years. What are we now? Yeah, nearly 13 years in private practice. It's just been, yeah, it's just been constantly full and there's never not been a time when, you know, I've dipped below what I've wanted to work or whatever. I've always, um, yeah, been able to maintain that practice.

Dr Peter Blundell: 7:02

That's really interesting. And I'm thinking about the two different things there, like the barriers to employment. Um, first of all, and then also like a window opening to private practice would give you like a bit of a taste of it, if you like, where of how this could work and then the rest of it, you just have to kind of learn, learn yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, so. So that's it. I find it interesting that you weren't necessarily wanting to go into private practice and yet it has become like one of your specialisms in terms of understanding it and your knowledge around all of that. So how did, how did you go from kind of, okay, yeah, you've set up in private practice to now it becoming such an area of kind of interest and specialism?

Caz Binstead: 7:47

Yeah, I think, um, I mean, I was just very happy kind of working away. You know, um, I absolutely love this work. I still do. Um, I get slightly more tired these days, um, having done it for a long time, but I still love the work, but so I was just very happy, like working away. Um, and, uh, my supervisor kind of, um, said to me, you know, you really got something here. And she, um, was very encouraging in saying that, uh, you know, um, there was certain, uh, I guess, skills that I had that other people didn't have. Um, and, uh, I began to look around and I just began to see that people were really struggling with their private practices. Um, and I thought, well, okay, I've kind of put the two together and thought, well, there must be something in that, I guess. Um, And, uh, uh, so, and this was, this was years and years ago, um, um, when there wasn't really that many, there wasn't really private practice consultants, there wasn't that many courses out there either. Um, so I set up a course which was called new to private practice and was running it in one of the training institutes here in London. Um, and that was, you know, um, every intake, it was kind of, um, Yeah, full, um, very busy, um, people with, you know, I mean, really that course could have been, I think it was, I think started on one day, went to two days, but it really could have been, you know, um, a great big, huge course actually, um, because people were just, it was really like, I mean, you know, me, Peter, I try and, uh, get as much in as I can. So I was like trying to cram as much information in as possible, but, um, um, yeah, people, people kind of. would have wanted more. There was a lot that was coming up and, um, um, actually like, um, um, an accountant came along, um, for some of the, some of those sessions that were run, um, to come and talk about that side of things. So, um, it was interesting for me to see just how much people really wanted help in this area. I mean, it's one of those things, isn't it? I would say that with students, like, someone starts off a kind of conversation about private practice, it's like one question, and then it kind of mushrooms into kind of all these, all these other questions. And I think that's something we'll probably talk about, is there's actually so much to private practice, um, that can understand why. You know, starting to do some training on it. And all of a sudden you're like trying to cram all this knowledge in, but actually it needed, it needed more space and time to kind of unpack all of that.

Dr Peter Blundell: 10:22

Um, um, so. That so that's really interesting. That's like kind of like the what leads you into kind of delivering training and kind of I've delved into this topic in more detail and sharing that knowledge. And but then that's then expanded even further in terms of kind of the work you've done around private practice within the profession within the UK, and especially with the BACP, where I know that you have developed and designed and led on the private practice toolkit. Yeah. Um, which is, um, amazes me actually that that has taken so long for BACP to come up with something like that. Um, but you were kind of one of the, the, the main people leading on that and creating the resources. So how did that come about given that you've said that you're kind of not a corporate person. Then working within BACP, creating these kind of resources for, for all the practitioners who are members.

Caz Binstead: 11:18

Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, I guess, uh, if I, if I think about who I am as a person, um, I'm creative and I felt that, that, that I'd done a lot of kind of creative things and, and I was very, uh, and I am very good at creative thinking. Um, so this was something that, um, I kind of thought, okay, well, you know, I have got something to offer here because, um, I noticed in trainings and stuff that I would be, um, saying things that other people hadn't really thought about. So, okay, there's, there's something there. Secondly, I'm an incredibly detailed person, which, you know, um, I'm very, very detailed. Um, so in terms of things like, um, you know, uh, contracting and all of that jazz. Um, yeah, I, I kind of recognize that that was, um, a real, a real, real skill of mine, actually. Um, and then I guess, um, the third thing was just about, uh, my own movements within the profession. Um, like I say, for years, I've been very happy, just quietly working in my consulting room. Um, you know, just doing the work basically. Um, But, um, things began to change a little bit for me. And, um, I began to, I suppose I became frustrated with the BACP. Um, um, you know, uh, I think they were doing these, uh, things, um, uh, they brought in this thing, which was like a secret shopper thing, um, where they were going to send Uh, yeah, yeah, people masquerading as clients, you know, around private practices and contacting private practitioners. And I mean, that just went down like an absolute lead balloon, as you can, as you can imagine. And that was one of the first real complaints that I'd I mean, I'd seen things over the years, um, people being unhappy, but that was one of the first real complaints that I had. Um, so I guess I was becoming more interested in, um, in what was going on in our profession. And I suppose that led me to think, well, What does the BACP actually do for private practitioners, because that feels like a really like a not very supportive and useful thing to be, you know, putting on private practitioners, and and I guess I just kind of thought well. Um, you know, I can see we talked about the barriers and, um, um, it had become a real important thing for me to think about in terms of that accreditation. And I've noticed this, that there was work going on around unpaid work. And so I had, as a protest, not got accredited myself so that I could stand in solidarity with those other people to try and, you know, force, um, systems to change in our profession. Um, and so, yeah, I just kind of thought, well, yeah, yeah. that's the largest membership body and what's being done for private practitioners. Um, and you know, I guess I'm a kind of see a problem, get in there and try and sort it out kind of person. Um, so I, I, yeah, I just saw an advert for, um, a volunteer, uh, position on the, um, private practice division executive. And I thought, okay, well, I might as well go for it. And, um, in my interview, I kind of began to talk about, you know, my ideas in terms of the things that the organization could do. Um, and, uh, yeah, got offered the, um, position and, um, very quickly, actually, it was, it was like only like a few months later. Um, because it was in one of the very first meetings that we have where I kind of said I want to continue to talk about what I was saying in my interview. And, um, basically I just don't feel like there's enough support for private practitioners. Um, that there's, um, that they don't get any support really. We don't feel, um, the presence of the membership bodies. And when we do feel the presence of the membership bodies, it's kind of being a bit scared, to be honest. Um, and, and that is a real, uh, that's a real, um, I felt quite scared after, after, you'd hear all these things in training and then you'd just be petrified, petrified of having a complaint, petrified of doing something wrong, you know, um, and that was a really, uh, that was a real thing. So. Um, when I got that position, I thought, okay, well, you, you've got a little bit of power here to actually do something for good, um, you know, for good for the profession. So, uh, yeah, uh, I was asked to put together a business case, a business plan, which I did. I, you know, I was kind of like, wow, okay, right. So I spent a bit of time on that, put this business plan together for something akin to the toolkit. And, um, Yeah, and then it just kind of flew off from there. And there was a, another very enthusiastic BACP staff member there, um, who, um, I think maybe it was good luck that he started at BACP the same time that I was doing this, because what it meant was that I could really lead as the divisional lead on that project. I could really lead from the, from, I guess, from the therapy side of things, um, and like being able to. Uh, because we, we kind of, in addition to new resources, there were, uh, we went through the website and the magazines to try and pull in, um, things, articles and things that were useful, but I, I read through the entire toolkit, because obviously someone had to say, These are relevant. These are not relevant. This is correct. This is not correct. And all of that kind of thing. So, um, in addition to doing quite a lot of writing and quite a lot of contribution to the toolkit, I was kind of doing that side of things. And then, um, Adam Pollard, who was on, uh, uh, was a product, product manager or something. I can't remember his exact title at that point. Um, he was doing kind of all the getting it up and the marketing and all of that kind of thing.

Dr Peter Blundell: 17:10

So yeah. I mean, it's such a, a huge amount of work's gone into that. And I think one, one of the things I find really, uh, interesting is there's a lot of members of whatever membership body where they're kind of, you see a lot of people saying, well, I pay this fee. What am I actually getting for my, for my money? And for me, I think the private practice toolkit is such a huge resource for members. And I know I think like, is it 80 or 90 percent of it is free resources? I think, I think there's some that maybe members have to pay for, but majority of it is, is free for members. And so I really think it does some, add some real value to people's, um, fee when they're actually saying, well, what do I get? And it's, it's a huge amount of resources.

Caz Binstead: 17:51

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I want to say this now. I really hope the BACP pick that toolkit up and do something with it because since I've left nothing's happened. Um, I really, really hope they do because, um, the whole point of it is. you know, to be an ongoing thing that is there to help private practitioners. And you're right, you know, we had a lot, but you, you know, I haven't been involved with BACP since 2022 and we're getting into 2025. So I hope that they can really, um, now it's been set up, you know, it's kind of all the hard work's done and I hope that they can, yeah, run with that a little bit. Um, but for me, it's just a nice, yeah, it's a nice legacy. Um, and it obviously gave me a lot of, um, a lot of. Opportunity to think about things and to think about where private practice was, um, and particularly my specialism, my specialist area, um, specifically, which is, um, the kind of, um, thinking about, um, ethical private practice and the therapy side and being ethical and working ethically with, um, the business side and, um, growing your practice.

Dr Peter Blundell: 19:03

So thinking about both those things and how they sit together. Um, and I think that probably brings us nicely to kind of how you've brought those, those things together, which is in your, uh, Well, I say new book, it will have been out for probably a couple of months, actually, by the time we kind of released this. So, Relation to Ethics in Psychotherapy and Counseling, Private Practice, Solidarity, Compassion, Justice. Um, and it's yourself, a lead author, and then Nicholas Sarantakis, is that right? Sarantakis, yeah. Sarantakis, if I pronounced that correctly. Um, which is part of a series by Routledge Ethics in Action. Um, so, and I suppose I kind of know the answer to this, but what, what kind of led you to write the book?

Caz Binstead: 19:45

The books then I think that your journey so far kind of indicates why but what's your way of explaining that I suppose. Yeah, well I suppose I, I would have been writing something at some point, I was, I did. Yeah, I mean the toolkit work was amazing. a lot of hard work. So, um, and obviously you and I doing Therapists Connect and on the back of the pandemic, I was kind of really exhausted for a while. And, um, so I was thinking about, well, I was definitely going to write a book and I was thinking, what am I going to do? Um, um, and, you know, how's that going to look? Who am I going to go with and all of that kind of thing. And then I was approached by, um, Andrew Reeves, Professor Andrew Reeves and Professor Lynne Gabriel, um, and Lynne Gabriel was very, very complimentary towards me and kind of had basically said that she'd been, uh, you know, following the work that I'd done and, um, you know, that they were thinking of this project and that they thought that I would be really good as the lead author. Um, and they basically told me and I thought, well, that's exactly, that's almost exactly what I've been doing. Um, and so, yeah, so it just made sense. Um, but I guess for me to kind of, to kind of take that on, um, and obviously, you know, to be part of the Ethics in Action series and to be published by Routledge, um, it felt like a Good place to kind of be putting this work. Um, um, and, uh, and yeah, yeah. And then Nicholas kind of came along, um, a few months later. Um, I think one of, one of those two knew him. Um, so he was put on the project. So we didn't know each other. Um, um, Um, so, which is, you know, obviously a challenge if you're writing a book with, um, you know, and, and both people don't know each other. But I think his, um, his area was more ethics, um, ethics in general. And obviously my area was private practice and, you know, I guess all of it. So, um, so yeah. Um, it's great. Do you, um, I wonder, um, about the title, Solidarity, Compassion and Justice, and why you felt it was important to include those, those things in the title. Yeah, yeah, well, um, one of the reasons I hope people get to read the book, and I hope they're not bored, Put off, by the way, by the subtitle, because I know the word solidarity and some people can send kind of alarm bells, like, you know, left wing unionist or something. Um, but actually, if you look the word solidarity up in the dictionary, it has a very, very specific meaning and it is very much about camaraderie. And I suppose all of my work with community, it really fits for me. Um, and, um, it actually has, um, I suppose more than one meaning, the subtitle, because, um, Yeah, it looks at the book looks at so it looks at the realities of private practice and the realities of being a private practitioner. So it takes into consideration, the work itself, obviously. And, uh, you know, the book is absolutely jam packed with vignettes, um, and, um, all kinds of, um, uh, I guess kind of interesting ones, you know, um, um, like, I tried to make them, like, not common kind of ones. Some of them, I guess, are, but, um, But some of them are, um, you know, ones that people may not have thought about before. Um, and so I guess words like justice and compassion you're going to find in the ethical frameworks. Um, but also solidarity when we think about social awareness. Um, and you know, we kind of, we talk in the book about being socially aware. towards clients. Um, so I guess some people would call this social justice or whatever, but it is quite broad actually when you look at it, um, how, how you can be socially aware. Um, and that includes private practitioners as well because, um, I think a lot of the work that, um, I had done was looking at, um, the potential, like, rubs tension between, say, a private practitioner and, and, Um, the lack of support they had and what needs they may bring into business. Um, and then, um, how you work ethically and could, you know, make sure you're continually as best as possible working ethically with clients. So obviously like the area of money, for example. Might be one where there could be a bit of a tension. Um, and, uh, uh, yeah, so I'd had these kinds of two dimensions, but in the book, we add a third dimension, which is, um, kind of, um, yeah, the social context. Um, um, And, uh, yeah, so those, so the subtitle is yes for client work, but it's also about, say, the community of private practitioners. So solidarity, you know, do we actually support each other as private practitioners or are we going into kind of being islands and, um, looking at things from a competitive point of view? How are we with private practitioners on social media? Are the private practitioners, you know, and how does that all feed into, you know, I guess, thinking about how ethically speaking, we can be the best that we can be, both as a community of private practitioners, and in our individual work as private practitioners, and also how can the profession Support that because I do feel like, as I've obviously already said, I do feel very much like private practitioners or working therapists actually are quite unseen in our profession, which is kind of ironic, given working therapists are the ones out there doing the work. I do think there's, um, I guess that fits in with what I would see as difficulties with. around equality and certain hierarchies in our profession. So yeah, the book really tries to look at things from all of those levels. And that's why I hope people will read it because I think it gives some interesting ideas. You might not agree, but I think it gives some interesting ideas to think about.

Dr Peter Blundell: 25:58

Um, I love that and I, I, I think the book does cover so many different angles. So I think there'll be something new for anybody who reads it, actually. Um, and I was thinking about what you were saying then, I always get this percentage wrong, so I won't say the percentage, but a huge amount of, uh, members, members of BACP and other membership bodies are in private practice as well, but it's not always at the forefront of the discussions and arguments around around therapy, um, that are happening. So I, I, I agree. I do think that those practitioners are missed quite a lot of the time.

Caz Binstead: 26:31

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, almost 70 percent um, work in private practice in some capacity and that's going to keep going up. And, you know, um, I guess I have a question mark because I do believe, obviously, because of what I do, that you can make a living from private practice, but the profession is also becoming very, very congested, congested because, I mean, as a lecturer, you will know, um, there are a lot of trainees, um, you know, uh, out there. Um, and, uh, you know, courses can, some courses more than others can get quite full. Um, so I really think that, you know, yeah, it's important that we're kind of looking at this area and we're making sure that everybody's getting supported as much as they can be.

Dr Peter Blundell: 27:19

Um, so, I mean, it might be very difficult to pick one chapter, but have you got any particular chapters in here which you was kind of you'd say is your favorite or the one you enjoyed writing most, maybe, I don't know.

Caz Binstead: 27:31

Yeah, it is really, really difficult. Um, I've always loved writing for students as a chapter, specifically for students on there and that's been historically what I've loved writing on, because obviously a lot of my work, I do do work for it. I mean, and the book is by the way for, you know, Private experience private practitioners as well because there's kind of ideas about what it's like to run a 21st century private practices, particularly after the pandemic period as well like where we're at with that so so the book is for. Um, those people as well. But I suppose a lot of my work has been for students and new private practitioners. Um, and, you know, I've done, uh, I've actually hosted, um, two BACP student conferences as well as delivering workshops. So, um, and I've done other, other trainings and things, so I, I, I, of course, I love that chapter. Um, but I've, I also love the contracting chapter. Um, it's the biggest chapter and I still. There's still more to say. Um, so, uh, but I really loved, I kind of thought I'd thought about it a lot cause I'd done this, um, uh, uh, co written this, um, um, contract template for BACP, which had been a real thing in itself because for so long, they hadn't had a template there. So I've done a lot of thinking on that already, but it was so really, very, very good to just sit there and really think about the contract. I, I really enjoyed that actually, when I wrote this chapter. Um, Social media won't surprise you, you know, and it was obviously great to, um, you know, to, to, I suppose that chapter is very, um, community as well, you know, um, I've been able to talk about Therapist Connect. I've been able to look at some of the very, very minimal research on therapists using social media. But, um, you know, most importantly, um, you know, there's this round table and also a kind of a discussion with a private practitioner. So it's just great to have private practitioners actually involved in that. Um, I am just going to say Therapist Connect was the first platform ever to do a conversation with social, with, um, a conversation on social media with therapists in general. Um, so this is, this was one with private practitioners, but. I just wanted to say that, um, because I would, I would really urge people to check that out on YouTube. Um, if you enjoy reading this, uh, this round table, because I think that therapists themselves, cause this is such a, uh, uh, you know, there's a lot to look at and a lot to think about. I really, um, I really think that therapists themselves, um, You know, have a lot to offer in terms of, um, where we're at with using social media, how we use it, why we use it, all of that kind of thing.

Dr Peter Blundell: 30:24

And I think the pace is moving so quickly with social media, it's evolving, it's changing, new platforms are coming, others are disappearing. And so I almost feel like you could hold that discussion every six months with different practitioners and get different discussion points coming out of it because of how quick paced it is and how much it keeps moving.

Caz Binstead: 30:43

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, um, one thing I will say is I'll use this space to just say this. Um, um, We, we were quite interested in the, the points that we had in common and the points that we, you know, disagreed on or whatever, but, um, one area was around confidentiality on social media and absolutely all the, all the private practitioners there, um, agreed that confidentiality should be kept on social media. And that that would be like a number one ethical point. And yet every single person had seen confidentiality broken. on social media. So I just wanted to, um, yeah, just wanted to mention that. Remember, remember when you're on social media, confidentiality is very, very important. Um, and also I think maybe there's probably nuanced conversations to have around that because maybe people think that they are being confidential.

Dr Peter Blundell: 31:38

When they're not, do you know what I mean? So that I think this, yeah, I think people really need to explore that in terms of how they express themselves on social media, what it is they're actually saying.

Caz Binstead: 31:49

Yeah, definitely. I'll just mention some other chapters as well. I loved writing the endings chapter. Again, there could be much more to say on that, but it's an important chapter for private practitioners. Um, There is a chapter on social awareness in itself, and that has a lot of stuff around money, but it also has a lot of stuff around working with diversity and difference. And obviously this is a massive area of interest, um, for me. So I love that one. And the other chapter that I love is the supervision chapter or supervision and other supportive spaces. Um, and I really, I really loved writing that chapter because I was able to. Um, bring in some other work that I'd done around, you know, a supervision model that I'd come up with. Um, so I was able to reference that and talk a little bit about that. And hopefully this book is going to be really helpful for supervisors working with private practitioners as well as private practitioners themselves. Um, um, and yeah, I do talk about it's kind of specialist super, specialist private practice supervision, something I kind of have come up with myself, actually. Um, so it was nice to get all those ideas down in one place, but also just really just loved writing about, um, therapy as well, you know? Um, so. Yeah, so lots of lots of interesting things in there that I enjoyed. Um, and it's just nice to see it in a book.

Dr Peter Blundell: 33:13

I mean, and I'm glad that you've covered all those because it is the book is absolutely packed full of stuff. There is so much in here for everyone. So, um, no, I think it's a wonderful achievement and a nice way to kind of bring all of that knowledge and experience together in the one place, you know. Um, so I'm wondering, I suppose, what. What is next in terms of private practice? You still have your own private practice, obviously.

Caz Binstead: 33:40

Yes, well, well, you say obviously, but many people don't know that I do, um, because I'm so busy. And sometimes I was actually speaking to Jane Travis, who's another private practice consultant. And she was like, what? You still got a full private practice? Because a lot of people, you know, are doing all this work. They don't still have a full private practice, but I do. And it is. a full private practice. So, um, actually, um, yeah, yeah, that is, that is, I suppose I'm doing a lot of extra things, but that is my main job and that is what I'm continuing to do for now. Um, um, and then, yeah, I'm going to see what the new year brings. Um, yeah. You know, it's been, it's been a funny old time the last few years. Um, you know, you and I have worked incredibly hard as well, um, on community stuff, um, and, uh, and activism, you know, in our, in our own activist, um, uh, things that we've, that we've been part, a part of. Um, and I do feel like, uh, yeah, you said a cult bringing everything together. So it feels like it's a culmination. It almost feels like there's a little pause. For me now, there's a little pause to kind of go, right, where am I at now? What is it I actually really want to do? That will certainly include writing, um, without a doubt, I'm going to continue to write, but, um, Yeah, you know, there's, there's, I guess there's lots of things you can do, but you kind of have to decide what are the main things for me and what's most important for me and Yeah, I'm sure I'll keep you updated You'll probably know before other people

Dr Peter Blundell: 35:27

Well, it sounds like it's a watch this space And it also sounds like you've not a hundred percent figured that out yourself yet in terms of in terms of what's next and that You're gonna spend some time thinking about that Yeah, definitely. I mean, John from online events has, um, you know, I've talked to him about all kinds of private practice workshops that I can do, uh, there with online events. So, um, you know, watch, watch that as well, because there may be some things that, um, come out at some point. Um, Yeah, but yeah, very much. I'm just, I'm really enjoying, I've got three weeks off over Christmas and I'm just gonna, everything's going to stop and I'm just going to really enjoy my time and also use that as a, as a time to just be a little bit in my head, you know, so I'm not, uh, we were just talking there. We're not going to do any work. It's like a pact. We're not going to do any work over Christmas. Um, Um, but I do want to just be able to just sit and just think and be with myself and just go, yeah, what's important for me and what have I got, what have I got to offer? Um, that's going to be, yeah, best for me, like I'm going to enjoy. Um, um, and also that's, you know, going to be something that's hopefully something else that's going to be useful for people. I love it. Well, I think that brings us to a nice close. We're talking about having a, having a rest and after all of that work, not just your book, but everything else that you've done for, um, the wider profession and private practitioners. Um, I think you deserve a rest for that. So, um, thank you for all of, all of the work that you've done. Thank you.

Caz Binstead: 36:56

Thank you, Peter.

Dr Peter Blundell: 36:57

All right. Take care.