Self-care for Therapists

The podcast episode titled "Self-Care for Therapists" discusses the importance of self-care for mental health professionals. Dr Peter Blundell interviews therapists about their strategies for self-care exploring how to avoid burnout, manage stress, and maintain a healthy work-life balance. The conversation emphasizes the need for therapists to prioritize their well-being, create boundaries, and engage in reflective practices. The episode offers practical tips and real-life examples to help therapists stay resilient and effective in their roles.

Chloe Foster runs Sussex Rainbow Counselling, a service that specialises in providing support and therapy to the LGBTQ+ community. For more detailed information or to contact Chloe, visit the Sussex Rainbow Counselling website or their Email Counselling Academy.

Sam Hope is an experienced trainer who has been working in EDI/Anti-oppressive practice for over a decade. Sam’s book Person Centred Counselling for Trans and Gender Diverse People is available from Jessica Kingsley Publishers.

Tom Smithson set up New Horizon counselling in 2018. He's a BACP registered therapist supervisor, and tutor with many years of extensive therapeutic experience.

Dr Mish Seabrook offers therapy, supervision, training, and consultancy and now adds coaching to her skills in serving others. She is BACP registered & accredited.

Ellis J Johnson is a qualified Psychodynamic Psychotherapeutic Counsellor and a queer, trans man of colour. He delivers training to counsellors in working affirmatively around gender and also delivers training in trans awareness and anti-racist practice.

Maxine Walsh has been a counsellor and psychotherapist for 11 years with four years of experience in private practice. She has been accredited by the Irish Association of Counsellors and Psychotherapists since 2019.

Dianne Sotomey is the bestselling author of her new book “Check Your Thoughts! Your Life Depends on It”! - How your thoughts shape your everyday life and who you become. She is also a UKCP-registered psychotherapist, clinical supervisor and trainer.

Dr Peter Blundell (he/him/his) is an academic, researcher, lecturer, trainer, and consultant.  He is a counsellor/psychotherapist, a social worker, and a senior lecturer at Liverpool John Moores University.

Article:
Aujla, M., & Narasimhan, M. (2023). The cycling of self-care through history. The Lancet, 402(10417), 2066-2067.

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Transcript

Dr Peter Blundell: 0:45

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the therapist connect podcast. My name is Dr. Peter Blundell. And today we have another special episode for you based on the topic of self care. And we've recently did another episode like this based on silence in therapy. And the episode was so popular that I thought I would do it again, but with a different topic. So in the episode, we collated the answers from all of our different guests around the specific topic, and then collate them together in one episode. So in this episode, I'm going to explore the subject of self care from different therapists perspectives. And before I do that, I just wants to give a bit of an overview of this concept of self care. From some of the literature that I've been reading around this particular topic, this is not extensive, but just some of the articles that I've read recently around the topic of self care. I'll include the link to these in the show notes. So in this first article by Mandip Auija and Manjiulaa Narasimhan theydiscussed the history of the concept of self care within the medical profession in their article called the art of medicine, the cycling of self care through history. Now in their article, they highlight how self-care is not a new practice, but it's something that has been established in many age communities and civilizations for millennia. Mandip and Manjulaa state, modern medicine itself born within a cultural and political framework, belonging to a specific time place and worldview. Which sorts of universal principles that could be applied to all peoples and societies. It also served as a tool during European colonization, enabling expansion beyond its point of origin. And establishing a new hierarchy of knowledge that would impact individual and communal indigenous care practices. End quote. What they're talking about here in this article is that the knowledge of self-care practices that was built up over many millennia within groups and communities was completely devalued by the advances of modern medicine across Western civilizations. Now Mandeep and Manjulaa also highlights how motivations to practice self-care are manifold, including intrinsic drives for self-reliance and as a reaction to systematic disempowerment of individuals in modern medical institutions. And joining the 1970s in the USA growing critiques of modern medicine led to self care, becoming a political act of body sovereignty End quote. And I'm going to come back to this idea of self care as a liberatory practice later on in the podcast. So as the philosopher, Anthony Western states, when the need for self care rises out of systematic and institutional failures and existing systems. It implies a collective struggle taking place alongside other critiques of disempowerment of individuals by contemporary institutions and professions. So it seems to me that all the therapists in this episode are approaching self-care from very different perspectives. i.e., thinking about their own way to self care. But that the commonality across these accounts is finding a way to look after themselves within a system and society that doesn't always support or enable it. So in this first clip I talk to Dianne Sotomey I originally released an episode with her in September, 2023, which you can go back and listen to if you'd like to find out more about her. Diane is an author. Her book, check your thoughts. Your life depends on it. How your thoughts shape your everyday life and who you become is a best seller. Dianne is a a UK CP, registered psychotherapist, clinical supervisor and trainer. And here Diane delve deeper into the theme of individuality. When thinking about self care. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience or your ideas about therapists or supervisors self care and what we might need to do to sustain a healthy therapy practice? I feel like the insights in your book might help with some of this.

Dianne Sotomey: 4:43

Yes and also I think as a psychotherapist I do feel that it's so important that we cultivate some kind of Daily practice as part of our self care, because I think we already have life happening. Then you have clients you're working with. Sometimes you can walk away with some of their stuff, and if you don't have a daily practice where you can really sit and be with you and reflect and connect with who you are, you can be connecting to all sorts. Thanks. And just operating in this frantic, but because it can feel like a, like you're normal, you don't realize how much you're carrying other people's thoughts with you. But when we have some kind of a daily practice where we have to stop and reflect and go deep and connect with ourselves, you don't notice these things. And I think it's so important, especially with the kind of work that we do. For some, it will be, for some, it might be just paying attention on a moment by moment basis, just thinking about what you're thinking about. For others, it might be a meditative practice. For some, it might be, doing your yoga and using it. I think there are so many forms and everyone, it will be useful for everyone to figure out what it is they gravitate towards, but I think having some form of daily practice is essential for self care.

Dr Peter Blundell: 6:20

I think that's really important and I think I like what you're saying there in terms of, it's all unique to each of us individually, when you try and put in practices that don't resonate with you or don't fit into your life or whatever it is, you can almost feel like I'm failing at this as well as that. But actually if you find something that works for you but I think that goes back to something we were talking about earlier, which is understanding yourself first, To know what works and really fostering that understanding.

Dianne Sotomey: 6:50

That's it. That's it. Because otherwise, if we're not at our best forms, we're going in and I just think people are paying us to get the best for themselves. So we need to be in tip top shape and whatever it takes to keep us in tip top shape, because sometimes doing this You can sometimes do it in your sleep, if not literally. Yeah. But you, it, you can, it can become, it's keeping it fresh and keeping it, yeah. I think it's so important because without that, I'd just be autopilot.

Dr Peter Blundell: 7:25

Yeah. And to keep it fresh, you need to be fresh.

Dianne Sotomey: 7:28

Exactly. Exactly. Otherwise we're being led. By automation. And because we're, we might be good at what we're doing. We don't actually realize how sometimes we might not be as present as we could be. And this next clip, I chat to Sam Hope. Sam is a seasoned trainer, author, counselor, and consultant with person centered anti-oppressive values. I originally spoke to them in January, 2024. Their book person centered counseling for trans and gender diverse people is an excellent resource and is available from Jessica Kingsley publishers. Sam approach their discussion of self-care from this perspective of communities and interpersonal relationships.

Sam Hope: 8:15

Okay. Yeah I think the term self care is a really individualistic concept. And I'm not certain that it's as possible as we think we are set as pack animals. I'm not sure where is capable of that sort of it almost. Resonates with bootstrap theory, doesn't it? You have to look after yourself. I don't know. I suspect that care is collective and community and relational like so much else's. So for me, as a marginalized therapist looking after myself as a practitioner has been very much based on finding communities where I'm supported where I have safety where I'm not experiencing too many microaggressions for me to feel in connection with the people around me. And yeah, for me. Then, in terms of what I give back to that ca caring for a community, and Being community oriented and putting something into making spaces safer feels like really feels like self care if because it's a 360 thing for me. Yes, obviously. Baths with candles and eating, right? And, I have a little, I'm quite mobility impaired, but I have a little park that's just opposite my home. I'm pushing myself to get into the park every day and shuffle around. Those are really important aspects of self care, but actually they're not nearly as important as those relational things. I think, just for our clients, the reason they come to therapy is for relationship, right? Because it is so transformative. And I feel like. It's really interesting we do something so relational but then we forget that it's relational and we individualize the idea of therapy. And I think that's dangerous and for me self care is a very individualized concept so relational care.

Dr Peter Blundell: 10:26

relational care, rename the episode to something like that. But I think what's really important, I was thinking about when Therapist Connect set up and in the middle of the pandemic and so many therapists working in private practice or in agencies even, and just working on their own and not having that community and people to talk to. And how much of that I think was. probably missing before the pandemic and then becoming even more emphasized throughout the pandemic. And I think yeah, there's something about us trying to do all of this on our own. And the kind of term self care, like you're saying, almost like applying the blame to yourself, while you haven't looked after yourself enough, when it's actually what about looking after each other?

Sam Hope: 11:07

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think I had a head start with the pandemic because I was already working online and I was always quite already quite isolated as a disabled counselor from a marginalized identity. So I had I already had to establish those support networks and many of them were online support networks. So I. personally thrived in the pandemic because they already had those structures. And yeah, but it's really important for people to have those. And also I think to value online connection because, especially those of us in private practice, we might not always have the energy to get out and do things and meet people in person. Actually, online connections are Hugely beneficial and important and we need not to see those as lesser because there's still connections.

Dr Peter Blundell: 11:56

Absolutely. And this next clip, I speak to Chloe foster. In their original episode, we talked about email counseling and alternative ways of working as a therapist. These topics tied in with Chloe's discussion of self care, which focused on how to manage your practice as a therapist in private practice.

Chloe Foster: 12:13

Yeah, I was really thinking about this one because I was thinking back to my early days in private practice and I found self care quite hard and putting in the boundaries and I think it's because I'm a very determined. person. So it's quite hard for me to rest and just wanting to take on more and more. So I was, I was working too many evenings, too many clients, lots of low cost. I just, there was just so much going on and I was just determined to make it work, but I wasn't really making it work because I was just doing too much really. Nowadays, I've really stripped things back and thought about what I want my week to look like and how do I want to work. And I think that for me, and the tips I would give to my younger self or counsellors who are newly qualified around self care would be to think really carefully about your boundaries. And to be really clear to yourself of your boundaries, but also to your clients around your boundaries. I've always been pretty good at being clear around boundaries with clients and that's thankfully not been too difficult, but the boundaries for myself is harder. So for example, I don't work evenings anymore. I do a four day week and I've got set times like that I'll offer to clients. And because I do a lot of email counselling, I can juggle my diary to fit that. what works for me at specific times and gives me so much flexibility. So yeah, I think it's working so much better for me and just taking, trying to dial back a bit and not go too fast with everything. Although I'm definitely not an expert at it because I have to constantly tell myself if I keep getting ideas Nope, that's going to have to be. For a later date or whenever. I know, because I've always got so many things that I want to do. And never enough energy or time.

Dr Peter Blundell: 14:16

I can totally relate to that. I totally relate to it. Saying no can be the most difficult thing. You're not saying no because it's an awful idea. It's difficult to say no because it's a fantastic project or thing that you want to get involved with. But it sounds like your boundaries just through the whole conversation that we've talked about has been an evolution in terms of The different projects and things you've been involved with. And it sounds like you've found a bit more of a nice balance. Yeah,

Chloe Foster: 14:42

I definitely feel like although things are definitely not perfect, everyone, obviously, including counselors could be better at self care. But. It's much better than it was, I'm, I feel I can pace myself, I can make sure I'm getting enough breaks, taking enough annual leave, not working weekends, things like that. And maybe that's because I'm a bit more confident in myself and a bit more established, 10 years on, I feel more oh, I'm not scared that there's not going to be another client coming along, so I don't feel so scared to say no or to refer on, which maybe I would have done. In fact, definitely I would have done in the early days, to be like, Oh, I'm not going to get enough clients. So I think that it's the confidence has grown. And I would like to hope that happens to most of us with time.

Dr Peter Blundell: 15:32

In my discussion with Maxine Walsh. She also wants to be honest about some of the difficulties she faced as a therapist in private practice. And these discussions interlinked with the topics we talked about, in her original episodes in October, 2023. Maxine is a therapist in private practice and a member of the Irish association of counselors and psychotherapists.

Maxine Walsh: 15:52

That's an interesting question. Like you're talking about probably the silence piece. And the self-care piece is probably the two things that I would most talk about in supervision.

Dr Peter Blundell: 16:07

that's fascinating.

Maxine Walsh: 16:10

Be because self-care for me has been a journey. That's, that I'm still on It's it's, it's essential. It's essential. And I think a lot of us aren't very good at it. I'm gonna put my hand up and say that it's definitely something that I have struggled with too. Self care and what it is, and that this is one of the things I notice about social media is that there's a lot of people on social media therapists and coaches and influencers who talk about self-care. And what they're talking about is what self-care is for them. Not what self care is for everybody else, because it is really unique to everyone. And I, for me, what self care is, taking the time every day to ask myself what I need, and then giving myself what I need. And some days that can be, you need to pay your bills.

Dr Peter Blundell: 17:15

I think that's really important. And one of the reasons I want to ask this question was because I agree with what you're saying in terms of there's so much advice about this is what self care looks like. And actually we can almost like berate ourselves for oh, I'm not doing that. So I'm not looking after myself or I'm not doing this. But actually, as you say, self care is different for everybody. And that can look very different. And as you say. It might be that you need to pay your bills. And that's what self care is, yeah. So that extra client that you need to take on, yes. Might be really important for you. I think it's also really interesting as well, that idea of self care in terms of, almost feels like an activity that we need to do, but it's one of the things that I've always thought about Is it also about the relationship that we have with ourselves? So we're always talking about being in relationship with clients and other professionals, but like what relationship do we have with ourself in terms of how we care for ourselves? Which I think again, that's going to look differently for different people.

Maxine Walsh: 18:15

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think because, I was thinking there last week about, what counselling is, what type of therapy is, and It is about for, I think a lot of it, a lot of it is about holding clients hands as they discover themselves. And so if we're not there, if we're not also on that journey of discovering ourselves, then how can we adequately support a client who is on that journey too,

Dr Peter Blundell: 18:49

yeah. And I think it can be scary for therapists sometimes to admit that. They haven't taken care of themselves or that they're, they've got difficulties that they need to work through, but I think it's really important that we are able to do that and take it to supervision or therapy or whatever area of support that we need to. No, I completely agree. And this next clip. Which is way back from November 20 23. I interviewed Dr. Mish Seabrook, who offers some top tips when thinking about self care. Mish office therapy, supervision, training, and consultancy. And now it's coaching to our skills and serving others. She has a specialist interest in supervision and resilience, which obviously seems quite pertinent to the topic of self care. And she founded the supervision Institute where she shares knowledge and offers CPD and support about supervision. I'm wondering, are you, could you give us maybe like a top tip for if people want to think about self care either as a therapist or as a supervisor to sustain their practice to keep it healthy

Dr Mish Seabrook: 19:48

if I knew that. I yeah, it's the chip. It's the balance is really tricky. Yeah. And I think there's something about being honest where you are with that. I'm not being afraid to be honest with peers or be honest in supervision about where you really are. And my main takeaway from. My, my phrase that kind of summed up my research in it was, how are you? And it was such a simple question, but actually there's so many layers to that. So think about your relationship with looking after yourself. What's that like? And I think it's a constant evaluation of it going, am I being kind to myself? Cause I'm feeling a bit. rubbish today about looking after myself or what time do I have to really look after myself? Or is it, am I doing it as an add on? Is it on my to do list and it keeps going further and further down or have I integrated this as part of my everyday non negotiable commitment? And we sit at a really tricky place as therapists in terms of we have to talk about looking after selves a lot, but I actually think we should do it even more than we need to. And knowing when to dial it up a bit more those kind of pinch points in our work or in our life, life happens. We are only human. Things get in the way. Being able to be kind to ourselves when things do get in the way and not tell ourselves off too much for being these perfect, again, inverted commas versions of ourselves, just allow yourself to be vulnerable.

Dr Peter Blundell: 21:31

I love that. I was thinking about the idea of like self care being another tip, but the thing on your list Oh, I haven't done self care. So it's another thing to beat yourself up about. But also how you phrased it earlier on when you were talking about, actually it's a subtle difference in language, but actually could make a big difference in terms of rather than just self care, thinking about the relationship that you have with yourself.

Dianne Sotomey: 21:51

Yeah. And we often think ethically about what is the impact on the client and putting the clients at the center of our work. But I'd also argue, hang on a minute, unless we're putting ourselves at the center of our work, then we can't be there for anyone else. How are you going to be able to show up for anyone if you're not being kind to yourself as well? And I think sometimes we have those, that voice, that, that loud, critical voice of not being good enough. And for some of us that do have that voice it's sometimes it's hard. We have to find a way to disrupt it.

Dr Peter Blundell: 22:25

Yeah, it's that old metaphor, isn't it? Of the oxygen mask in the plane. Got to put it on yourself first.

Dr Mish Seabrook: 22:31

Yeah, or as the great RuPaul would say, How the hell are you going to love anyone else when you can't love yourself, we have to really look at that and really examine that relationship. And know that it's movable. We don't get it right. Like our learning, it's not a done deal. It's a constant evolution.

Dr Peter Blundell: 22:50

And I think there's something there about being really mindful about how we look after ourselves and not just, Oh, I've had, I've seen three clients in a row. I'm going to take, 10 minutes for myself because that's,

Dr Mish Seabrook: 23:01

Yeah, self care.

Dr Peter Blundell: 23:02

That's self care and I've ticked it off for today.

Dr Mish Seabrook: 23:06

Yeah. Yeah. And knowing what it means for you as an individual in terms of, is it about, Yeah. Is it about peace? Is it about energy? Is it about moving? Is it about sitting down? Is it, and what can you do? Whether that's physically or financially or what can you do and what you might want to do. They may be quite different things, but just really attending to what do I need right, right now in this moment. And sometimes for me, it will be about blasting loud music and singing along. And sometimes it will be like, I just need absolute silence. And they're both equally as replenishing for different reasons.

Dr Peter Blundell: 23:43

And I think sometimes sitting with that, maybe anxiety of something not being done, maybe, going, okay, but actually, if I approach it, once I've had a rest or a break or whatever, actually, maybe I might do the task better as well as looking after myself, potentially. Tom Smithson opens up about starting up in private practice. I'm reflecting on how we treat ourselves when in self-employment and why that might be different to how we expect to be treated as employees. Tom sets up new horizon counseling in 2018. Is a BAC P registered therapist, supervisor and tutor with many years of extensive therapeutic experience. And he specializes in working with people from the LGBTQIA+. Community.

Tom Smithson: 24:24

I think links back massively to the community, the connection with people, almost forcing yourself to put yourself out there and and connect with people. And I know that's difficult. I say that as an introvert. It's one of my worst things of having to meet new people, but it's always worth the risk. Even if you don't get on with someone, it's still worth the risk that you put yourself out there. So I think saying, I am going to try and connect with a few people. I want to have a handful of people that I can speak to if I need to. So that's all you need. It's not about having a whole group of people. It's just having a few people that you can go to if you need to. And alongside that, making sure that you look after yourself and take time off. I've been guilty of this in the past where I've been too scared to take time off. Or I've been worried about clients or I've been worried about money or I've been all of these sort of things. And I've really, it's been become a debate about taking time off. That was only for a few years to be fair. And now it's actually, if you were working for an organization, you would have your 28 days. And You need to have 28 days. And if you're not having 28 days, what's going on? And that's something for supervision. Now, I try to tally up my time off. And I know that's difficult to do. Again, that comes from a privilege of being having a that financial stability. But again, that's something that you can work towards as well in terms of preparing yourself, saving up all of these sort of things. Yeah, making sure you have your time off.

Dr Peter Blundell: 25:46

I think that's good advice. I was thinking about, I wonder whether there's something about being self employed and also working on your own because I hear other kind of people who are self employed do the same fear of taking time off, been like they've always got a kind of working and not been able to take that break. And I was interested as well that you said, actually for a couple of years that you struggled to take that time off and I was wondering is that maybe when you were had started in private practice and were worried, Oh isn't it? Is this stable? Like my income and kind of, yeah.

Tom Smithson: 26:17

Yeah. That was a huge part of it. I think one part of it was, I don't want to miss anything. What if I get an inquiry or what if someone wants an appointment or something. And I hate bringing it back to money, but that is the world we live in. And it was very much a case of, I was paying My rent for where I live and the rent for my office. And it was like, if I take time off, will I be able to pay my rent? And I think in a weird kind of, in a, Dark sort of way I think that's an important part of the process, I would have had, I would have hated it to be a breeze. But that was something that held me back from taking time off at times. Fortunately, because my workload wasn't too heavy, never got to the point where I felt like I caused any harm but I think that is a risk where if I hadn't. If things hadn't changed for me and I'd not take any time off, then that would have had an impact on my clients. I managed to dodge that bullet. But I think that's a real risk when you're like I either go to work and pay my rent or I take time off and then worry about not paying my rent. Yeah, it feels like stress. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Peter Blundell: 27:16

And that's why I think I was thinking about those first few years that maybe it's, temporarily as you're starting your business that you take less leave, but as maybe you get to a practice where you realize actually this I'm sustaining this and it's okay, not just using those practices that have got you through in the past.

Tom Smithson: 27:32

Yeah, exactly. Actually, I can take time off now without kind of everything falling apart. Yeah, I suppose stopping and taking a moment to actually ask yourself, when's the last time I had a break? Do I need one?

Dr Peter Blundell: 27:47

And this last clip I talked to Ellis J. Johnson. Ellis is a qualified psychodynamic psychotherapeutic counselor, and a queer transman of color. He delivers training to counselors in working affirmatively around gender and also delivers training in trans awareness and anti-racist practice. To organizations around the country and also internationally. And our discussion, we touch on the structural impact of capitalism and old self-care practices. And thinking about liberation, very principles for self-care.

Ellis J Johnson: 28:16

So this is something I think about a lot as somebody who has, burnt out in the past and I'm very, tried to be very careful now about taking care of myself and it's an ongoing challenge, right? I think it's very easy to slip back into ways of working that are not sustainable. So one method that I've found has worked really well for me is to schedule breaks, maybe more, even more often than I think I need them. So at the moment, I'll work for about 6 weeks or 7 weeks and have a break every, yeah, about every 6 or 7 weeks of one week. And then try and have some time off in the summer as well, if I can. And I was really terrified about doing that as somebody who is used to working every hour, God sends kind of thing. It was really scary for me to say actually, I need, this is maybe what I need. So I did that last year and it worked really well. And, the year before I was getting ill all the time the impacts of COVID and all sorts of things. And the predictability of it. Actually was, has worked really well for me. And from what I can see, it's worked quite well for clients as well. So having to cancel last minute, in, in the last year, a couple of years ago and having to move sessions all the time, it's just unsustainable way to work and particularly as a psychodynamic practitioner who, I like to have my clients at the same time every week, without moving around at all, if I can help it, it was breaking my heart really to have to. To keep moving things. So we have a level of predictability now. And that seems to, yeah, I noticed that. Yeah clients seem to respond well to that because we have more breaks. More often, there seems to be almost like a different kind of use of the break as well. So clients often coming back and being like, okay, I knew I was going to have that time to integrate the things we've been thinking about to, to see where the themes have come up in the real world a little bit more. So I'm noticing actually that the break as it started to become an even more integral part of the work. And we, as always we work with it, we work with it, even like I said earlier, if I've got a different glass from last week, I can, I'll manage that and I'll see if it pops, it'll come up. It's never has done so far. Um, you work with it. So I think I also do a lot of supervision for other people working in the charity sector at the moment. So lots of different organizations. So big part of that work actually is, saying to people you are the priority, like your longevity, making this work sustainable is my priority. Um, so that's. And it's sometimes a bit like yeah, it's, it can be very difficult to help people to see that they need to take care of themselves, actually is what I've noticed, really difficult.

Dr Peter Blundell: 31:03

I think when you were talking, I was thinking about capitalism, and the, just the drive for more and more, and how it's counter cultural at the moment, almost, to put in those breaks and say, actually, I'm resting so I can sustain myself rather than keep growing more and more.

Ellis J Johnson: 31:18

Yeah, and that's the thing of, private practice as well, isn't it? You haven't got any safety nets. And I think for me also, there's a class thing here, being a working class person, it is you work, you go to work and you work as much as you can and as hard as you can, it's that kind of scarcity mindset. And having to work against that is, is quite difficult. But I think, as I said earlier, if I hadn't have had that kind of burnout I wouldn't have understood actually that it's not negotiable. It's not negotiable for me to work 60 hours a week. Because my body will stop working, even if my mind is still going, which it was at the time, I didn't feel depressed. I didn't feel overwhelmed. I thought I was fine, but my body just stopped. It just stopped. I tried to talk about that to people as much as possible to say, you might not see it come in. Your barometer will be skewed at this point. So what feels like having a really big break is probably actually just completely. normal and natural, when I was at my worst kind of working so much, I remember I couldn't take, I couldn't fathom taking an hour off to go to the doctors. I was just like, I, there's no way I could leave work for an hour. I just cannot do it. So then not working for two weeks was like, Oh my God, this is outrageous. Then turned into six months and that just, it broke the barometer for me. I was like, okay, I need whatever I need. Actually, at this point, and that's, I try to talk about it as much as possible to say, if you want to be doing this work longer term, you have to have strategies in place and connection also, I think is a big one.

Dr Peter Blundell: 32:53

It sounds like your body was giving you the message, take a break.

Ellis J Johnson: 32:56

Yeah, it was this kind of, it's that idea of my body took a break because it wanted to take a break. I didn't have a say in it. Do you know, take care of yourself or your body will take care of itself for you.

Dr Peter Blundell: 33:07

I was interested in hearing you talk about from a working class background, because I'm from a working class background, and at one point I realized that when am I going to get to the point where I say, oh it's okay now, you've done not enough, you don't have to keep going and going and going, no one ever teaches you that bit.

Ellis J Johnson: 33:22

Actually people teach you the opposite, particularly again, if you're from working class background or have a background of poverty, it's the opposite. It's, you better keep going because if you don't, you're You know, we don't know what's, what's around the corner. And so it's really profound learning. And I think this is where the, we have to engage with all these intersections of identity. We have to acknowledge that it's not the same for working class therapists or students. It's not the same for black and brown students as it is for white students. And it's certainly not the same for trans students as it is for non trans students.

Dr Peter Blundell: 34:01

I really want to thank all of the guests for this episode of the podcast. Hope it has given therapists some thought and reflections around their own self-care practices. And I hope you enjoyed listening to it as much as I did creating it. I wants to leave you with a quote from Audre Lorde taken from her book, A Burst of Light: And Other Essays. Sometimes, I feel like I am living on a different star from the one I'm used to calling home. It has not been a steady progression. I had to examine in my dreams as well as in my immune function tests, the devastating effects of overextension. Overextending myself is not stretching myself. I had to accept how difficult it is to monitor the difference. Necessary for me as cutting down on sugar. Crucial. Physically. Psychically. Caring for myself is not self-indulgence. It is self preservation. And that is an act of political warfare.