The #TherapistsConnect Podcast
The #TherapistsConnect Podcast
Maria Sorokopud
In this episode of the #TherapistsConnect podcast Dr Peter Blundell interviews Maria Sorokopud about her life and work in Ukraine.
Maria is an experienced GP who specialises in Gastroenterology and is a Transactional Analysis Psychotherapist. While working in the field of medicine, Maria noticed that the approach of Western medicine is often focused on the treatment of the symptom(s) that the patient is displaying, but rarely pays attention to other possible causes. Keen to expand her knowledge in this area, Maria went to Moscow to study kinesthetic psychology and the basics of Chinese medicine. After taking a break from the medical field, Maria decided to train as a Psychotherapist and has studied: - coaching in Erikson's coaching international, NLP (practitioner) BDG, Kyiv Ukraine and Transactional analysis (completed, P-CTA candidate).
Peter is the founder and co-lead of #TherapistsConnect. You can find out more about Peter's work via his website www.peterblundell.com.
#TherapistsConnect is a platform for connecting therapists.
Website: www.Therapists-Connect.com
Twitter: @Therapists_C
Instagram: @TherapistsConnect
Facebook: @TherConnect
Origins of #TherapistsConnect
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Therapist Connect Podcast. My name is Dr. Peter Blundell. And today I'm delighted to be interviewing Maria Sorokopud. Maria is a transactional analysis and therapist living and working in Ukraine. A big thank you to all of our listeners, the podcast has been going for three years now. If you'd like to find additional ways to support the podcast, then please leave a review on one of your favorite podcast platforms. We hope you enjoy this episode Hi Maria.
Maria Sorokopud:Hi. Nice to meet you.
Peter Blundell:It's lovely to meet you, too. How are you?
Maria Sorokopud:Oh, good. How are you?
Peter Blundell:I'm very good. Thank you. It's pouring rain here. But apart from that, it's, um, all right.
Maria Sorokopud:Same, but we have sleet.
Peter Blundell:Oh,
Maria Sorokopud:Not exactly. The blessing thing. Messy, messy mess and cold in like it at all.
Peter Blundell:And thank you so much for coming to do this. I really appreciate it.
Maria Sorokopud:Thank you for inviting me. That's a really interesting experience to be honest.
Peter Blundell:Yeah.
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah. To talk about. Well, therapy and therapy in Ukraine is is the thing right now?
Peter Blundell:Yeah. Well, absolutely. I suppose that was on my mind when I saw you appear on Twitter. And I thought it'd be an interesting perspective to have. And to hear a little bit here a little bit about it. So thank you appreciate.
Maria Sorokopud:It's a great community and really appreciate it. It's, it's good to connect this way and get to connect to different modalities of therapy.
Peter Blundell:Well, that was one of the things that's interesting, because I'm the person centered approach. But obviously, being part of this, I've been just involved with so many different therapists from so backgrounds and approaches that I've, I feel like I learned a lot from Twitter now working in education, I feel like I shouldn't say that.
Maria Sorokopud:Well, this is how we learn these days.
Peter Blundell:Absolutely. But I think people share so many different perspectives, and so many ideas and things like that. I think it's hard not to not to learn by being on it, I think really so. So I love it. I probably spend a bit more too much time on it really, than I should do. So have you trained as a therapist in Ukraine anyway. And then now also being trained in the UK, or or were you? Have you just become trained in the UK?
Maria Sorokopud:No, I've been? Well, I've done my four year course 14 Ukraine, with the Ukrainian trainer. And then I decided to broaden my horizon in a way because I come from medical field. Originally, I'm a doctor. I used to be a GP and then I got certified in cardio, then gastroenterology. And then I burned out. I reached that point because I was working for budget, hospital. And I was also writing my dissertation, a bit of a side story, my chief editor died for the dissertation. Yeah, and it was kind of a breaking point. So I took a lot of time off. To be honest, I took almost eight years. And then slowly, slowly, I started coming back first I tried coaching, like, no, not enough for me. So just upped my game. Plus, I was in therapy with two specialists and I liked the modality, it's really I like the diversity of it. I enjoy and appreciate the many theories that it has an many points of view, you can twist and turn the problem or the issue or the request, and you can actually try different things, but at the same time, it will be one thing. That's why what I appreciate about TA.
Peter Blundell:I mean, it's it's that's really interesting to hear you say that so obviously Person Centered therapist, but my partner is just starting down the journey of transactional analysis in training. So we're having these interesting discussions about well, this is what it'd be in person centered ways. This is how it looks at transactional analysis lens. So yeah, so it's interesting to hear your experience of it. And what that looks like. What kind of drew you to being a therapist in the first place then was there anything that that
Maria Sorokopud:that clicks I don't think it was one thing? No, it was, I do enjoy working with people. And I do enjoy seeing someone grow in a way plus I do enjoy, the academic part of it, which is why I appreciated TA because it's quite academic. And you can then to link it with medical field you can interlink, with psychiatry. This is what I do. I kind of integrate those two together, and it works for me.
Peter Blundell:So was that important to you, I suppose, is that part of your previous profession? Kind of you were able to interlink those kinds of two things?
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah. Yeah. It's, it gives me space, it gives me an opportunity to use medical knowledge without overstepping I, in here, we have a little bit different system. Therapists cannot prescribe medications. So that's no no, or you can get licensed and do. It's more than medical clinical therapy. But that's when you work in the hospital, then you have a writing. So it's a little bit different. I don't want to go down that road. I prefer what I do the private practice, keeping it simple, staying kind of I know my clients. Yeah, I know, my clients, and I know what I, what I'm capable of working was, and what I'm not capable of working with. And my knowledge and medical field in psychiatry gives me that knowing my boundaries, knowing my knowledge. So that's how it makes it.
Peter Blundell:That's really interesting. So you mentioned that you in private practice, then is that Have you always been in private practice? Since you qualified? Have you worked in different different places as part of your career,
Maria Sorokopud:all of all of my career was in private practice. Except when I was in hospital, because I was also trained in psychiatry in a hospital. In actual ward, I, my training was a little bit weird. I was assigned to, to a department, I can't remember the name in English, where people go when involuntary confinement jeez, yeah, that one. So I was working there. So yeah.
Peter Blundell:Okay. So I imagined that must be quite challenging, then.
Maria Sorokopud:Oh, yeah. It was challenging. But it was also the thing that you learn that the patients and clients that you have to be really careful with, and you have to know, this is why I appreciate medical background, because I will in time, no one is too dangerous for me, because private practice is private practice, you have to look after yourself. And considering Well, medical field in Ukraine is all a bit twitchy right now consider a war and everything. We did have a restructuring of psychiatric hospitals. And some people who need psychiatric help, cannot get it. Hence, they go to psychotherapists, and I mean, I'm incapable of helping those, those clients. It's just waste of time for them. And waste of resources. So this helps this helps alot, to be honest.
Peter Blundell:It sounds really, really challenging. So I mean, you mentioned a little bit there, but you're based, obviously, and you're working in Ukraine at the moment, can you can you tell us a little bit what that what that's like?
Maria Sorokopud:Interesting. It's challenging. And I've been here since the beginning of war, I didn't leave and that edit a grip to my work. Let's put it this way. It was a time of learning and relearning and identifying one thing. Nobody taught you how to work during war. No one taught me how to work during bombing, how to hold the space for the client when they are in more danger zone when you're in danger. When you have the bombing and you have to calm down your nervous system and go to work. It's an experience. When all this will be over. I'm pretty sure I will be ready to write a book or at least an article about it for now. It's all it's an ongoing process. Still. There's still some changes, there still developments and the war is going on. We cannot put the dot and say that's it.
Peter Blundell:I mean, you're still very much living through it right at this moment.
Maria Sorokopud:Yes, yes. And plus Ukraine is played a pretty much split up into different areas right now. Some are occupied some people just recovering after occupation because their territory was read. Some areas are being bombed power cuts. I mean, In Just today, right, it was over 5 million people lost their jobs. So there's also financial crisis. And we do have supplies, which is really good, because we had a period, in Kyiv of is a capital. And just imagine for one second, being in London, and seeing empty shelves, in shops, in food stores, that would have shocked anyone. I was shocked. So for two weeks, we had problems with food afterwards, who kind of got better. But all of those things, all of those changes do affect people, and how do you deal with them? I mean, therapy does help. But at the same time, I had to embrace the fact that finances and problems like this do affect people more than the emotional problems. So first, we deal with this, then we'll deal with psychological aspects.
Peter Blundell:And all those practical things will impact on people's psychological state, and how that how they're feeling and dealing with everything. I was also just thinking then about what you're talking about there in terms of everyone around you is going through that. But also, you're also going through that as well, at the same time and trying to kind of manage those two, those those two things, whilst being a psychotherapist, I imagine is really difficult.
Maria Sorokopud:It's basically stitching up your reality pretty much every single day. On one hand, you have bombing, on another hand, you have your exams, your practice, your education, and kind of putting this all together, it's, it's challenge, it's a challenge to huge challenge, to be honest. And sometimes I just have to bring myself back and say, Hey, you have a life. Look at this direction. Yes, this is horrible. But at the same time, look at this, you know, kind of turn in your own head towards something better. It's, in a way, it's given up on hope. The war is not gonna end like this. Even if it will, the action will end will still have consequences will still have to rebuild, make opportunities for people to work to come back to something, a lot of things will have to be done. And at the same time. It's building that hope that after this, there will be something else. So it's kind of one hope. Forget about it. Your hope for end of march on the daily basis
Peter Blundell:Kind of waiting for it to stop, and what's coming after that. But in the moment while it's carrying on, actually, you know, there is there is no hope for it stopping there is no endpoint that you can see in front of you.
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah, it's it's not a it's not guaranteed. And at the same time already in Kyiv. I mean, I live in the area 10 kilometers. Have you heard about Bucha?
Peter Blundell:Yeah
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah, that's area, it's 11 kilometers away from me. People from that area, after occupation came to Kyiv. Walking in, in my area where my apartment is. There's so many people who are still having the visual of visible consequences of that. I mean, you go to a shop, you hear people talk about it, trying to process it somehow. And it's kind of all around you. So yeah, that's the picture right now.
Peter Blundell:And something that a whole community or country even is trying to process as its as it's
Maria Sorokopud:Exactly. And I don't think anyone is built to happening. process this thing. It's the too many. Plus the news, this war is something else considering the fact that it's been reported on the daily basis. basis. Ali, we get reports from all the areas we get reports about bombings, we get reports about massacres, we get reports from someone attacking someone firing back, what's happening on all the fronts, there's too much information, there's too much stimuli. So you kind of I had to figure out my schedule when I checked the news. Otherwise, it was kind of like it's too much. I cannot deal with this. And you have to build this weird structure to continue.
Peter Blundell:Finding it, finding a way through it with everything going on to try and make sure that you're okay and all of that and then doesn't doesn't overwhelm you in terms of
Maria Sorokopud:Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes you have to admit I'm not okay.
Peter Blundell:Yeah.
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah, I want to cry, I want to break down, I want to sob, I want someone to call me or something like this. Sometimes you need those moments, when you just give up for at least 10 minutes and then continue. Its a heavy subject.
Peter Blundell:It is Maria, but I really appreciate you, like coming along and talking about it and giving people the opportunity to kind of hear what that's like, from your perspective, because I think it's important that people know, really, but it is still very much an ongoing situation, and the impact that it's kind of having on people at this moment in time.
Maria Sorokopud:Yes. At the same time, it's really peculiar to watch people who are from outside, they process it. Because you feel so powerless. Being here, you have more, I have more power, I can do something. At least I can run to shelter and hide from bombs that's already doing something, I can tweet about it, I know. Or call a friend and say, 'Hey, this is a disaster, blah, blah, blah', you just just vent about it. That helps. But when you from outside, and you'll look at it. This is like Oh, my God, this is this horrible thing is happening right here in Europe. We're I mean, no one would have predicted something like this. And yet it happened. This shadows the safety, like completely. It is difficult thing. Plus, I hear that a lot of refugees who moved it's harder for them to process because of this, because they're outside then they can do anything about it. It's so it's from the
Peter Blundell:Looking from the outside looking in. I was wondering how connected do you feel to kind of the more external world outside of Ukraine and kind of other communties.
Maria Sorokopud:I am blessed, I am blessed and lucky. And I guess it's a really lucky person, because I have two supervision groups. And based in UK, I have friends I went I I'm not originally from Ukraine, I grew up in Turkey, and Istanbul, and I also have schoolmates from outside, so I'm well connected. And I have people who are not in the situation to whom I can talk to. So I'm, I'm good with this. This, this is one of those things, when you realize that in order to process, you do need support and help. It's embracing that vulnerability to the max. That is challenging for them,
Peter Blundell:Absolutely. I mean, I'm glad that you've got these different avenues of support, I suppose. That leads me to wonder, is there a kind of therapy community within Ukraine, or I suppose there might have been and maybe that's shifted now since the war.
Maria Sorokopud:There are quite a few. My TA community that I was a part of, is quite shattered at the moment. And at the same time, to be honest, we have a little bit different with values. value system when it comes to work and practice and the legalities and laws. In Ukraine, we're still developing the legal system for therapeutic work, which is why I appreciate UK system. It gives you solid margins, and quite clear rules and regulations. While here we don't have that yet. It's still an ongoing process and consider the war. Of course, it's that process is pretty much gone. So yeah,
Peter Blundell:That's really interesting. So was that one of the things that drew you to kind of also train in the UK?
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah. I really appreciate the system and plus, in Ukraine. The organization is what 10 years old. So it's pretty young. There's still a lot of developments, a lot of clashes. I mean, as an any young organization,
Peter Blundell:I mean 10 years in the history of things is not it's not a long time to kind of get established so I'm sure it's kind of going through that initial growth phase and finding its way Yeah, that's really interesting. I was gonna ask you, I suppose more broadly about the counseling and psychotherapy professionals. So wondering what you think is the biggest challenge for it right now, either either in Ukraine or kind of broader in a worldwide, whichever.
Maria Sorokopud:I think we are challenged by external crisis. And then we cannot ignore global warming, we cannot ignore the what's happening with financial markets, we cannot ignore what's happening with war. And this kind of breaks the safety. And the idea that it's okay, the world is not a dangerous place, at the moment it is not, it is a dangerous place. And when I think us as psychotherapists, we we do hold on to those pillars of safety of security, good legal systems, etc, etc. When you don't have that, or that has been broken or shattered. I think this shifts, and us as therapists have to acknowledge that, that this problem exists, and we can all ignore it. So those shifts, it's what I see, I guess that's why the Therapist Connect is so popular, because it gives you that ground, a community you can hold on to, which is brilliant.
Peter Blundell:I mean, I think that's really important. I speaking to somebody else about this today, it's kind of like Who are we as psychotherapists, without without the psychotherapy hour. Who are we beyond beyond that, really. And that's a really important point, there's so many issues which can't be resolved through that process. And we suppose we all have a duty, don't we to campaign and be activists in terms of make sure that we make a difference? We have a lot of knowledge and insight around different topics and areas that could be useful for people.
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah, it's interesting that you're using word 'activist'. I do think, well, at least in here, therapeutic community is not about activism. It's more about stay calm, don't get involved, you know, that kind of thing. And personally, I guess, that's where my values clash. And I like head on. No, I disagree. This is not how it works for me. I cannot put a blind eye or ignore something. It just doesn't work. And I guess for me, it's proactive position. therapeutic work is a little bit more passive. A little Hello, calmness, warmness, soothing. But you cannot do it this way in here. You just can't.
Peter Blundell:I mean, I mean, that can work in therapy. But there's no reason why we have to be like that all the time.
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah, you can, I mean, you can integrate those two together, and add up. This is the thing when we talk about therapists as an identity, we cannot ignore the rest of ourselves. It is just impossible otherwise, what chop it off. It's not gonna happen. So
Peter Blundell:I think that's really interesting. I dont whether you would agree with this for I feel like I've seen a shift where I feel like I'm seeing more therapists become vocal and outspoken around. Tahn I think I've done in the past. I mean, obviously, I spent a lot of time on Twitter. So maybe that's a consequence of that. It feels to me that is that there is more more people being activists, more therapists being activists than than in the past, I think.
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah, outside, not only here, not yet. But this one thing Twitter gives us freedom, a lot of it that we didn't exactly how would I mean, in here, we don't have venues or kind of events where you can actually get vocal. Twitter gives you this freedom. Twitter gives you the platform where you can actually be outspoken. Yes, you can get criticized and yes, you can get (inaudible). Yes, things happen. But at the same time, it's the risk that you can take an experience it learn trial and error.
Peter Blundell:And at least somewhere where people can get their voice out where they can say after they feel or think or care about, you know,
Maria Sorokopud:And be heard and be heard. Yeah,
Peter Blundell:Hopefully.
Maria Sorokopud:Yeah. Hopefully. Sometimes ignored. Yeah, that happens too.
Peter Blundell:I feel like we've talked about so many, so many different topics have we have we talked about everything you want? Want to talk about today? Or is there anything we we didn't cover?
Maria Sorokopud:I think we do cover quite a bit. Yeah. And thank you for giving me the space and opportunity to vocalize something what I've been holding back for a while.
Peter Blundell:You're very welcome. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. What's next for you? What's, what have you got planned?
Maria Sorokopud:Oh, in February, I'm doing a presentation at the conference in Canberra on hate, anger and war. Yeah, what else are we going to talk about right now? Not exactly about love and compassion and things like this. I'm not not there yet. Actually, I have to say, this whole situation, not just war, but the entire process. It murders your empathy and compassion is just it disappears. You have to rebuild it pretty much on a daily basis, kind of remind yourself, hey, empathy, that.
Peter Blundell:I mean, I can understand why because I think you know, the constant kind of grinding down of people and kind of things that you need to deal with on a daily basis. So I feel your warmth and your compassion from speaking to you. So I don't think it's, I don't think it's disappeared Maria. Its still there.
Maria Sorokopud:I am working on it.
Peter Blundell:I wish wish you the best of luck with that. And thank you so much again for coming on onto the Therapist Connect Podcast. Please stay in touch.
Maria Sorokopud:I will thank you. And thank you for this really lovely community. Really appreciate it.
Peter Blundell:Thanks, Maria.
